Dan Romero on Warpcast

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Dan Romero pfp

Tell me why I'm wrong: Ethereum L1 or L2 gas fees make micropayments too expensive for everyday consumer apps. Less frequent payments? Sure. But 10x a day? No.

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Dan Romero pfp

I love that posting a /bad-takes has a picture of @briang

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𒂠_𒍣𒅀_𒊑 pfp

𒂠_𒍣𒅀_𒊑

as long as the UX is smooth, this fits into the expected budget. is 10 x $.30 pushing it? for sure, but w/ scaling improvements ethereum should be able to handle this. the miss, as far as I can tell, is that most of Ethereum usage has nothing to do IRL daily budget (mostly just entertainment, instead).

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Isn’t one of the ideas of everything going to L2 that block space on L1 becomes cheaper, particularly for L2s to the point where those L2s also become cheaper?

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EulerLagrange.eth

@eulerlagrange.eth

UTXOs can make things pretty cheap. https://vitalik.eth.limo/general/2023/11/14/neoplasma.html Plasma/Validiums are now possible because of advancements in ZKPs. This system doesn’t support arbitrary tx amount though, has to be some standard sizing.

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will pfp

sounds right to me but tbh i'm skeptical that humans actually want the cognitive overhead of micropayments (stated vs revealed etc). Interested to watch your warp-tipping experiment play out

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DCinvestor pfp

likely viable on validium architectures (with off-chain data availability), or you think too expensive there too? haven't heard them discussed in a while, but think volition models could give you best of both worlds (security + cheap tx's when you need them)

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dylan pfp

I think this is part of why people like to use Warps so much

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Syed Shah🏴‍☠️🌊 pfp

Syed Shah🏴‍☠️🌊

I’m confused about the size of payments that would fit this description that would also be good to implement. That Venn Diagram looks like two separate circles to me.

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jesse.base.eth 🔵 pfp

jesse.base.eth 🔵

i agree, would do it with an L3 plasma with alt-DA

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polynya pfp

For micropayments, need $0 fees Will probably need a hybrid solution (acceptable, because very low value) combined with stuff like this: https://ethresear.ch/t/springrollup-a-zk-rollup-that-allows-a-sender-to-batch-an-unlimited-number-of-transfers-with-only-6-bytes-of-calldata-per-batch/11033

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Connor McCormick ☀️ pfp

Connor McCormick ☀️

we're entering an age of abundance where energy costs will fall precipitously and epistemic value will become more important ("Yes, this is actually a video of me, not a deepfake")

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Alana Levin pfp

where are the celestia folks when you need them

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Alex Loukissas 🍉

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Mac Budkowski ᵏ pfp

Mac Budkowski ᵏ

$0.01 tx fee fo $0.33 payment is the same as 2.9% Stripe tax. So if by microtransactions we mean $0.50+ per payment, it'd still be an improvement.

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shazow pfp

Validiums/volitions make fees as cheap as you want to subsidize offchain (can be as cheap as warps), basically off-chain DA transactions that get settled on-chain occasionally. There's a few prod examples today (starkware mainly), I agree it's less accessible than say... "just use Base"

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Gabriel Ayuso pfp

@gabrielayuso.eth

TradFi also had to figure out had to make micropayments work with the credit card rails and fees.

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Jacob pfp

Perhaps L2s will eat into the market share of those 3.5% card processing fees on bill payment websites

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Fran pfp

What do you consider a micropayment?

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