Murtaza Hussain on Warpcast

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Murtaza Hussain pfp

Murtaza Hussain

I claimed a bunch of Moxie token over the past few days – this appears to have accumulated organically as a result of my casts and interactions. I cannot tell what the mechanism is by which this occurs but it seems to be that when certain people respond to you it generates a lot of Moxie, whereas others do not. So you may have a trending and popular post but if the more powerful accounts don't engage with it there is not much Moxie generated. I think it would be more democratic and come closer to achieving organic economic viability if the mechanism were more based on engagement agnostically rather than favoring certain accounts. At least the favoritism should not be so wildly disproportionate and can allow for posts enjoyed by lowbies to generate rewards rather than building around a few power users.

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unfortunately agnostic engagement is hard to measure in a way that isn’t vulnerable to manipulation, especially on an open network social capital systems are bad but better than any other option for something like this but it’s pretty nice to have an open protocol where anyone can compute their own version of engagement score

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Jason Goldberg Ⓜ️ 💜 pfp

Jason Goldberg Ⓜ️ 💜

one other thing i'd point out: the Fan Tokens help level the playing field! not earning enough points on your own yet? You can by Fan Tokens of top earners and share in their rewards

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Couldn’t agree more.. Moxie *heavily* favors a small group of accounts https://warpcast.com/geoffgolberg/0x8dc6751c

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Jason Goldberg Ⓜ️ 💜 pfp

Jason Goldberg Ⓜ️ 💜

Thanks for feedback! The system is working as intended. 10,000 bots don't have the same authority or ability to affect the score vs. one comment or recast by Vitalik. Users earn "social capital" by building up their reputation in the network and then they spend their social capital every time they engage, which signals to other people in the network that that content is worth paying attention to if it was entirely based on total engagement it would be overrun by bots immediately and fall over

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Cameron Armstrong

An alternative way to think about it is Moxie has actually offloaded the burden of identifying “reward worthy” posts to those accounts Since it’s “real” money handed out (without distributor consent lol) imo we’re a few months away from “unfair replying” becoming a hanging knife over via mob reproach

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@ghostlinkz.eth

> At least the favoritism should not be so wildly disproportionate I’m wondering if this is an oversight or if the Airstack team has a different perspective on it. We should have an open discussion about how the social capital score is calculated for each user. I just know that it's dynamic

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Syed Shah🏴‍☠️🌊 pfp

Syed Shah🏴‍☠️🌊

I think it’s a fair representation of how social capital works. You build it up over time. Those who have built it up over time have more to distribute. Splitting everything equally is not fair and it’s like having equality for equalities sake. Now if you come in and contribute everyday and aren’t building up your value fast enough that is a valid argument. How fast or slow that happens can and should be adjusted. Slow makes it less likely to be manipulated but could have new people feeling jaded. You don’t want to cater too much to new people though because they have no skin in the game yet and could churn in a day regardless of social capital accumulation. But I’ve never bought this, “just make it equal, that’s fair.” Wouldn’t be an accurate modal of how things work in reality.

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Jason Goldberg Ⓜ️ 💜 pfp

Jason Goldberg Ⓜ️ 💜

Let's get on an audio space or unlonely and discuss it and debate it! cc @geoffgolberg @cameron

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mvr 🐹 pfp

100% agree with this @mazmhussain. Thank your for sharing. The way I selecter to voice my concern got me (and others) marked as a spammer on this platform causing this reply to only show below 'show more' under your cast

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downshift pfp

I'm supporting you through @microsub! 125 $DEGEN (Please mute the keyword "ms!t" if you prefer not to see these casts.)

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Dilek pfp

"Every Farcaster Member earns a Far Score based on their relative influence in the Farcaster network. Every cast and reply on Farcaster earns a Cast Score based on the Far Scores of the users who engage with the content and the type of engagement." https://build.moxie.xyz/the-moxie-protocol/everyday-rewards

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Good thoughts. Each popular person’s post can generate 1000-3000 moxie. I wonder how fast we reach the moment when all supply has been allocated and there is nothing more to earn :).

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Tokenized Human

@tokenizedhuman

I agree, but how do you do this without enabling spam? One way might be to create a tiered system of levels that castors might be able to achieve based on certain good faith metrics to increase their moxie power, another might just be to readjust the algorithm a little in favour of lower ranked accounts that otherwise have good non spam histories. It's certainly not easy.

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@bratovanov.eth

Favoritizing a limited group of accounts in Web3 leads to a loss of users in the medium term, as the goal of users is engagement, driven by our desire to participate in the economy. This detail is still not taken into account. Instead, with Web3 intentions, platforms with a Web2 philosophy continue to be created, where the mechanics of a small group of content creators and a large group of content consumers are in play. Analysts often cite the dynamics in X as a positive example, but there, only the crypto bubble should be measured, where the outflow is very significant and, in my opinion, the reason is not just the bear market.

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kia pfp

if it favored engagement indiscriminately then @geoffgolberg's homeboys with the warehouses full of users would create 100k accounts and just reply to each other. there are issues with leveling and the weights and they do lead to unintended outcomes but the way to solve it is def not to 'democratize' it

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𒂠_𒍣𒅀_𒊑

agreed, but this is where crypto-enabled strangers say "no, u". if we try 1 vote systems, the complexity of preventing sybil attacks runs away from the initial intent to crowdmeasure rhetorical/memetic power. collusion resistance is also complex/undiscovered. I think @vitalik.eth 's "Trust Models" (ipfs://bafybeich5qo7pzecsojkrlgr6wcbzc4gh3gbluwrnr2wglbekihvgon7ma/general/2020/08/20/trust.html) lays out the compelling case for certain techniques & the kind of discretion for applying them. as far as Moxie, I do agree that the signal could be improved, but I honestly don't see how that can work w/ moderated "focus groupchat multisig", repeated so many times that conspicuous collusion can be appropriately weighted. and that costs bandwidth. eventually we'll coalesce into meso-bodies to meet halfway.

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arob.base.eth🍖🎩

Glad to see you getting into it! 100% agree the current system of using your FarScore on Airstack.xyz isn’t fair, it’s super top heavy and a like from Dan is worth more than 400 likes from me. This score needs work, thx for getting that message out there.

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Stuart pfp

If it wasn't such a disparity between Moxie generated by the big accounts and most people, the behavior of baiting replies from big accounts wouldn't be incentivize as much. On the other hand you run into the problem where if it's too open then it will be more easily botted and farmed by people just spamming for the token. 🤔

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Sammie pfp

Yep. There are people getting comments from big accounts. Nobodies like me have already lost the few big account friends I had managed to make by just being a replygal before moxie. Now they don’t respond lmao

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