Ryan Grim on Warpcast

Ryan Grim pfp

Folks here are helping me narrow down what I don’t like about crypto. I see the argument that it is a way to freely move currency even in the face of authoritarian governments. I guess on the one hand, I just don’t believe that governments can’t find a way to crack down on it. All the crying from crypto folks about the tyrannical SEC suggests governments still do matter. But more importantly, I think it’s a much better use of time and energy to organize and fight to stop those authoritarian governments from existing in the first place. I see so many brilliant people spending so much time on this thing that is literally separate from reality (it’s right there in the name crypto) when that energy could be put to more fruitful use. Anyway, no final conclusions, just some evolving thoughts.

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jd 🌺 pfp

first and foremost: glad you're here and continuing to participate. your skepticism will make us better at articulating the bull case. as for these thoughts: - the web was also separate from reality. many people spent time on it rather than lobbying their elected representatives - because these tools run on the internet, it's unlikely that governments will be able to shut it off. instead they'll be forced to engage in a public negotiation, which is good for all involved - blockspace tools can and will improve one's ability to lobby their representatives to improve all sorts of policies

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Benjamin Basche pfp

Benjamin Basche

I think you should expand your view of crypto outside of the tokens / financial aspect. This very site is a testament to the fact that blockchains create a substrate for building “hard” applications. Warpcast could disappear or be compromised tomorrow, but you own your username, social graph and content, and anyone can run a node. These are what I call “vending machines in the sky that nobody owns.” Uniswap is a decentralized exchange but more importantly it’s open source code that runs the equivalent of the Nasdaq with the impossibility of being shut off. We can extend this to something like a “Nextdoor” for unions to organize and coordinate strikes with zero chance of censorship from big tech or the government. Many many other things that provability, decentralization, censorship resistance and neutrality can solve than just sovereign finance

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Daniel Fernandes pfp

Daniel Fernandes

The problem is that the word "crypto" is overloaded to mean different things to different people. When I say "crypto": I mean cypherpunk agorism. Others hear: US crypto industry including Coinbase, Kraken, Ripple, A16Z etc. Coinbase is a US exchange that pays US taxes and can be destroyed by US laws. Tornado Cash is noncustodial privacy software running on Ethereum. FinCEN put TC on the sanctioned entities list...guess what happened? Not a single Ethereum transaction broadcast to the network was censored. Then we won in court because privacy is a human right guaranteed by our constitution. That's real cypherpunk crypto.

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nicholas 🧨 pfp

excited for you to learn even more about blockchains. some cypherpunk minded people see system design that addresses incentives as a promising path to changing the world, where rhetorical and political activism has nothing to say to “the day after the revolution” as zizek might say. switching out this leadership for that leadership within bioinfotechnoeconomic systems that tend toward agglomeration of power and its subsequent abuse does not deliver the kind of paradigmatic change needed for the world to transcend petty conflict. the better part of crypto is powered by the belief that we can invent new mechanisms that create fruitful mutually beneficial relations. mechanisms designed to not only withstand the erosive power of selfishness, but flourish under its rays of light. please watch this video which taught me bitcoin. the speaker is a very reputable source on bitcoin, the social technology, which opened the door for much subsequent invention. https://youtu.be/yorRGbp54tM?si=m5PzKefimo16qp98

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Nate Maddrey pfp

I agree with you in theory but to be frank I think it’s naive to say that our efforts would be better spent trying to stop authoritarian governments for existing in the first place. History has shown that it’s much easier said than done. Have you considered that this might be the most impactful way to fight against authoritarianism for many of us?

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m_j_r pfp

> I just don't believe that governments can't find a way to crack down on it they haven't broken the network, only performed "chainalysis" or other extrinsic risk, and the industry is motivated to demonstrate private & secure features like privacy pools >organize and fight...fruitful use https://xkcd.com/435/ comes to mind. crypto is far from applied reform, and there's no question that it is costly in human capital. imho, a purely political solution was costlier, earlier. a vacuum of market structure was costlier, hence memecoins. but there are also footholds like ddocs.new and https://docs.rarimo.com/freedom-tool/. there are other applied organizations like PizzaDAO or Cabin, and the tech behind flash movements like ConstitutionDAO has been iterating behind the scenes. we must be early, because it's not completely applied. I appreciate your POV, think it is needed to force more tangible proof of concept for healthy commons -> timely reform.

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matthewb pfp

> I just don’t believe that governments can’t find a way to crack down on it the Biden/Harris admin tried to kill the industry and failed. see the debanking report by Nic Carter: https://www.piratewires.com/p/inside-biden-admin-plot-to-destroy-silvergate-and-debank-crypto-for-good-nic-carter. bitcoin, ethereum, and many other chains continued to run despite their best efforts. a challenging regulatory environment makes adoption more difficult, prevents citizens of a given jurisdiction from legally using certain software, and leads to companies operating offshore. it is very difficult (if not impossible) to outlaw open source cryptographic primitives and our job is to build distributed systems that are as resilient as possible. > fight to stop those authoritarian governments from existing in the first place absolute power corrupts absolutely. we will never have governments fully aligned with our interests as civilians. crypto is valuable precisely because it attempts to remain separate from the state.

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Ben pfp

It’s no longer only about freely moving currency without the government. That was use case #1. It’s about an entirely re-engineered tech stack for the internet that embeds ownership rights and permissibility at the protocol level. From that will continue to emerge new use cases. “Life After Google” by George Gilder crypto pilled me a while back. “Read Write Own” by @cdixon.eth is excellent and recently published so more up to date.

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kia pfp

crypto is the only way to own something that is digital authoritarian or not if you are pro ownership and think the world will continue to trend ownership then crypto will simply be a part of that world

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shazow pfp

One more narrowing: People upset about the SEC are American people who see a future in these crypto platforms and want to build on them to get some exposure to the upside of growth. While this is a legitimate thing, it is separate from the facts of what these crypto platforms unlock regardless of America or the SEC. Plus a lot of us genuinely see this as the most effective way to fight against authoritarianism. We are on the same side, but perhaps disagreeing on where energy is best spent for now.

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Garrett pfp

Crypto is a powerful tool against those types or regimes and governments

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McBain pfp

Cool to see skeptics like yourself engaging in good faith and listening to feedback And definitely hear you that good old fashioned political activism is also needed Lots of “burn it all down” energy from people who’ve never read about the French Revolution I think the fact that the best in class crypto networks are default free is the best argument @xmtp by @shanemac.eth for instance you’re a big fan of Signal app it seems, you’ll love XMTP

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kayvon pfp

Really love that you’re here expressing a distinct counterpoint to the monoculture that would exist otherwise!

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highplains.base.eth 🎩✨🔴 pfp

highplains.base.eth 🎩✨🔴

society could be lead by carrots instead of sticks https://warpcast.com/redphone/0x5c74aecd

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Mike | Abundance 🌟 pfp

Mike | Abundance 🌟

How about the argument that blockchains can make governance more transparent, efficient and aligned with the interests of the citizenry, and have the ability to solve multiple longstanding problems in economics?

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Sean Wince 🎩 pfp

Sean Wince 🎩

Govts can inhibit the growth or feasibility of businesses, as in the case of SEC and Coinbase et al, but govts simply cannot censor transactions on the network itself or shut down smart contracts. When OFAC sanctioned tornado cash, that didn't stop tornado cash transactions - it just made it riskier for an American to do it and for a short while made TC transactions get confirmed more slowly. But never censored

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bradq pfp

appreciate this summary of where you are...like that FC has maybe contributed to crystalizing your mission

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Rumblestiltskin pfp

Rumblestiltskin

@rumblestiltskin.eth

If none of those arguments convince you then crypto is not for you. BRICS countries have definitely found use with crypto as a way to trade in USD without going through the US banking system. It may not be useful to you but there are many people it is very useful to and have no comparable alternative.

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Fanzo pfp

Time to zoom out and look at the shifts narratives and untapped possibilities being powered by the blockchain itself….

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