yuga.eth on Warpcast

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https://warpcast.com/~/channel/politics

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yuga.eth pfp

I love Mitt Romney, but he is utterly wrong. Human ethics do not apply to state actors. We accept this the moment we grant a monopoly on violence to the state. Morality cannot be the rubric we apply to political leaders. It is dangerous to do so. The relevant lens is the national interest.

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yuga.eth pfp

Perhaps I should amend the phrase: “Human ethics do not apply to state actors in an anarchical world.” The lens for this statement is foreign policy and national security, which are the principal responsibilities of the president.

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Alex pfp

@asenderling.eth

I read this as less about 'moral ethics' and more about "Will this man put the country above himself". With Trump he has a clear track record of pure self interest at the detriment of the country, the prime example being his lying about the 2020 election and illegal attempt to remain in power, which is what he's been criminally charged for after a grand jury of American citizens found there to be sufficient evidence.

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Aleph 🎩 ↑ pfp

*some form of morality* always applies. (1) Eg during war, we don’t just kill unarmed civilians even if it might be efficient bullying tactics. We still moralize the process (2) culturally, a lot of national morality flows top to bottom so we should care about a reasonable level of character in leaders.

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Henri Stern Ꙫ pfp

Henri Stern Ꙫ

Yours is a version of “the ends justifies the means.” I am not sure I could disagree with you more strongly than I do. Our leaders represent us. The abandon of humanism in politics in favor of “man is a wolf to man”-style cynicism is a great failure. It will not lead to a nice place for us.

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Jared 🎩 pfp

Thank you for the cast in /politics. 1703 $Degen

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TS pfp

Disagree. Leaders shape and prioritize national interests. Their ethical choices are essential in shaping both domestic and foreign policy. Also, state actor applies more to the international level in IR theory. The Presidency is occupied by an individual.

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Zach pfp

There are amendments of the Constitution that are not in the national interest. Should that be waived when it becomes inconvenient?

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Ben pfp

Would you apply morality to leaders outside public office?

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kripcat.eth 🎩 pfp

kripcat.eth 🎩

Trump is in the US National Interest?

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BKim pfp

It isn’t just Mitt Romney. This belief is shared by many a wise man. Take the Federalist paper 57: “The aim of every political constitution is, or ought to be, first to obtain for rulers men who possess most wisdom to discern, and most virtue to pursue, the common good of the society…” I’d love to hear more from you on this. I only see unjustified statements. “X is wrong. It can’t be this or that. It must be this.” Why or why not? Long cast or thread if you must.

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Castelian pfp

Leaders w/o ethics and morality end up being dictators and authoritarians => more deaths and suffering, often on global/regional scales. Have we not seen enough from history with Hitler and Stalin? While ethics and morality aren't always enforceable, there must be lines that one do not cross as state leaders. It's dangerous to suggest otherwise.

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