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To save time: I said US founders invented something, you said actually they got that from Locke. I refuted that by showing that just philosophical influence isn’t replacement for inventing something new.

Then you said my refutation of your original point works in your favor…you can see why somebody wouldn’t follow that logic

I agree with @typeof.eth both in the general point and the logical soundness of it. Correct me if im misunderstanding any side. The way I see this discussion unfolding:

@ryanfmason argues:
- The U.S. founders invented the idea of universal human rights (or something like it).
- When countered that they got it from Locke, he replies: even if they were influenced by Locke, they still invented something new.
- He uses the idea that “influence doesn’t cancel invention” to defend calling the U.S. the “inventor” of universal rights.

@typeof.eth replies:
- exactly—you’re demonstrating that no one “invented” universal human rights out of thin air. It was a cumulative intellectual evolution, not an American invention.
- “You’re making my point for me” implies: the existence of influence undermines the notion of a single, original inventor—especially when the influence goes all the way back to antiquity and through multiple thinkers.

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That’s the main point for sure!

Not to mention the contradiction of the original “from Christian theology” and the acknowledgement that it also comes from pagan Roman philosophy

Yup! Your logic is sound! I fail to see how someone would not follow.