youssef on Warpcast

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alixkun🎩🍡 pfp

alixkun🎩🍡

I saw this video popping like crazy on my X feed today. Seems to be another instance of a controversial arrest of a black man (here Tyreek Hill) in America and as expected, everybody picked a side. I watched the whole video, but I have to say, I'm a bit confused. A few thoughts: -The officers looked short tempered and agressive, but not at first. -Hill kept calling the officers "bro" 🙄 -Hill rolled up his tainted window while interacting with the officer 🚩 -Refused to sit down after being asked to. Said it's because he just had knee surgery, but also, played football later that day? 🤔 -The guy in the other car not showing his Driver's licence after being asked 10 times. I mean, I know there's history of police violence, even police killing citizens in the US. But in this case, there's none of that (there's been rough handling of Hill for sure, but Hill didnt show his best behavior either), so I'm really curious as to why it seems to have become such a controversial arrest? 😳

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Chainleft pfp

What's wrong with calling someone "bro"? Why the nitpicking?

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alixkun🎩🍡 pfp

alixkun🎩🍡

Is this a serious question? You're being pulled over by the police, and you think calling the officer "bro" is going to get you the best outcome? If you seriously think so, I can't do anything for you...

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youssef pfp

“bro” is much more of a cultural thing than disrespecting someone, it’s like saying “man” but even so, talking how you want to an officer shouldn’t provoke any reaction on their part, otherwise they shouldn’t be on the force not being able to talk how you want is called “compelled speech”, and i’m pretty sure people who historically depend the police hate it

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alixkun🎩🍡 pfp

alixkun🎩🍡

I have nothing against you Youssef, but I'm sorry, defending "bro" as an acceptable term to use when addressing a law officer is straight up bad faith argument. This is like, 101 basic social interactions practices. Here, I'm not saying calling someone bro justifies for any retaliation, but when you interact with another human, the way you talk, behave, etc...Does influence the other person's response. It's just delusional to think that because he's a cop, he's gonna have a robotic answer that's not gonna take into account any context element 🤷‍♂️

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youssef pfp

You are talking about something you genuinely don’t know and are being overly confident about it. I know that because if you think that something is “bad faith” while the vast majority of reasonable Americans (incl. officers) would agree with it, then you just don’t know about it, and that’s fine. I personally don’t consider your POV to be in bad faith, I just think you’re off base on this aspect of American culture, and probably more off base with American police culture. “Bro” is simply not the word you think it is. And yes, it might be stupid for someone to talk a certain way to an officier (even if “bro” isn’t an insult), but re-read this thread, it started because you put “bro” at the same level as the other bullet points.

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alixkun🎩🍡 pfp

alixkun🎩🍡

Do you have data to sustain your point? ("while the vast majority of reasonable americans (incl. officers) would agree with it"). I will gladly strike this bullet point if you show me the data, but I *highly* doubt that a majority of ppl in the US think it's appropriate to call a police officer "bro" when being pulled over. Most cops, when they pull you over, address you as "sir", and I'm pretty sure that's what's in their training program. If they adress you with "bro" or "man", that's a fault, and righfully pointed as such. Yes it goes both way, but I don't recall hearing the police officer calling Hill "bro".

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youssef pfp

I don’t because I doubt studies about things like that exist, and it’s not not worth it to me to look that up, feel free to satisfy your curiosity, or just ask a bunch of Americans. But btw you changed my framing, I never said “appropriate”, I said not disrespectful, let’s not change the words. About the second point, I think you missed what I said and went in another direction. When interacting with officers, what ultimately matters (especially in the US) is the law, not “expectations” (that no one can define, incl. you me or a judge). If the officer (in general, not the video) doesn’t respect that they stop being a cop and start becoming a criminal. That’s the basis of a lawful country. But the actual point I was making is that officers (as you pointed correctly) are trained, citizens are not. Acting like they should is a horrendous slippery slope.

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youssef pfp

In case it’s not clear, when I say citizens aren’t trained, I mean they are not supposed to speak a certain way to officers, even if there’s a better way of talking. Trying to mix the former with the latter *is* the slippery slope that could give too much power to governments.

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alixkun🎩🍡 pfp

alixkun🎩🍡

Ok, let me answer point by point then. It might not be disrespectful, but it's also not appropriate. Where does that leave us?If you want to categorize things as insulting<disrespectful<un-appropriate, I have nothing against it, but we're still being left with something un-appropriate that needs to be changed into "appropriate". Now, with the law Vs expectations. If you want to go there, let's go there. It's not against the law either for a police officer to pull you of your car and cuff you if you fail to comply to his requests multiple times (which is the case here). It's also not against the law if he handled you roughly to do so, as long as he's not beating you up. So if you want me to give in on the "expectations", I'll gladly do so if you admit the perfectly lawful character of this intervention.

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