Vitalik Buterin pfp
Vitalik Buterin
@vitalik.eth
I guess I started an accidental AMA on which parts of the crypto space are good and which I'm so far not excited about, along with other big picture vision questions: https://x.com/VitalikButerin/status/1827583576751181961 You should feel free to ask questions here too! Let's see if Farcaster can come up with higher-quality questions than the other app :)
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tldr (tim reilly) pfp
tldr (tim reilly)
@tldr
“If we get lots of people using USDC, that creates a situation where it becomes easier for people to move to other more decentralized stablecoins too.” ^ this is a good specific example where a partial compromise of decentralized principles (one of the primary things you don’t support) seems very useful for spreading decentralized systems as a whole, and therefore seems net good. (I would argue that Coinbase is another, on a pretty large scale. But this is not an uncontroversial topic within the deep crypto space.) Do you have any heuristic for when compromises to decentralized principles go too far?
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Vitalik Buterin pfp
Vitalik Buterin
@vitalik.eth
My main worry is when they start entrenching network effects that become hard to undo. For example, if we start normalizing "sign in to this crypto social thing with Google", I think that's really bad, UNLESS it's done in an account-abstraction way where under the hood it's using zk-email and individual users can sign in with their ethereum account instead (and convert their account from one to the other). This way, it's not entrenching network effects of centralized web2 platforms, it's actually creating a bridge that lets users join the ecosystem with them, but then more easily migrate away from them.
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Wilson Cusack pfp
Wilson Cusack
@wilsoncusack
Even with ZK-email I worry about giving Google or whoever custody of the signing key, re DKIM.
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casslin.eth pfp
casslin.eth
@casslineth
how mature is zkemail atm, is it easy to integrate in existing products? i wonder many new products this cycle using sign in w/ email coz the set up of @privy & similar service providers, which aim to lower the barrier to entry for normal users. how should we strike the balance here. ps. i agree in principle we should not normalizing sign in w/ google/web2 email, or even worse, phone number, on crypto products. Would like to see how this works out in execution.
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tldr (tim reilly) pfp
tldr (tim reilly)
@tldr
Makes sense — whether the centralized dependency is easily reversible by the user is key (though I guess this isn’t the case with USDC) One of the interesting things about decentralized principles is that — in much of the world, specifically the more institutionally healthy parts — their differentiating value propositions have not yet *felt* useful to most people. (Eg, most Americans don’t care about signing in with Google bc that situation has not ever been consciously adverse enough to them that it is worth even a split second inconvenience) I think we all in this space rightly believe that there *will* be events in the future where this changes for everyone. When this time comes, it seems like it will be valuable to have developed crypto projects that lots of people are already aware of and comfortable with as options… As long as whatever relevant compromises they’ve made are reversible by the users.
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conca 🎩💻 pfp
conca 🎩💻
@0xconca.eth
I 100% agree, i *never* put social logins into my dapps… we need to educate people to web3, not finding compromises that bring products one step backwards, such as being dependent to emails again
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Neiro pfp
Neiro
@neirodog.eth
I completely understand your concern. Consolidating network effects through centralized platforms like Google can be problematic. However, if we implement solutions like zk-email with account abstraction, it could serve as a bridge rather than a barrier, allowing users to migrate to a more decentralized ecosystem smoothly.
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gabe 🎩🎭 pfp
gabe 🎩🎭
@gabrieltemtsen
@vitalik.eth , following your thoughts on the risks of entrenched network effects What criteria do you think should be used to evaluate when it's beneficial to introduce centralized elements in a decentralized ecosystem, especially if those elements might later be hard to replace or remove?
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