didnt make it on Warpcast

0xen 🎩 pfp

public ledgers, open source, DAOs, CC0 are all far left coded ideals. curious how the more right leaning crypto space squares these bedrock concepts.

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Generate revenue.

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strange bedfellows innit

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DAOs or user-owned networks are like cooperatives. Cooperatives can earn revenue. The distinction of capitalism’s versus socialism’s “revenue” is the profit incentive and who gets the profit. Especially because they also have the power over how the company is run (and in oligarchies, how the country is run) Don’t let anyone tell you that money, markets, or income has to be absent from leftist ideology; it’s a big tent. Leftist conception of these things, which as you mention is very much coded in line with the web3 we’re building, is about equitable distribution of surplus revenue and democratic control of the organizations. I don’t think people on the right understand the bogeyman they think they’re fighting. Red scare propaganda and garbage propaganda like “The Little Black Book of Communism” built a wall of bias that even Gorbachev couldn’t tear down.

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> Red scare propaganda and garbage propaganda like “The Little Black Book of Communism” built a wall of bias that even Gorbachev couldn’t tear down. It's not little. 100 million dead. Ask anyone who has actually lived in a communist country how great it is. :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism

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Dan, seriously. Two of the books authors revoked their authorship and the numbers don’t add up. They’ve even admitted they made it up. Here’s a solid debunking with citations, but there are quite a few if you try at all to check your bias. It’s CIA dribble baby. Sorry to ruin your favourite book for you. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7n6ql2/is_the_black_book_of_communism_an_accurate_source/

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OK, 50 million dead. Are you disputing that communism killed more people in the 20th century than any other ideology?

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i’m not going to argue that communism is good, but this common argument is reductive and isolated the wrong variable. authoritarian communist governments killed many people, among whom were the advocates of communist republics and anarcho-communist societies, who were not responsible for such killing. instead of the insane implication that communism is somehow preferable to fascism, it should be noncontroversial that authoritarianism historically leads to mass killing regardless of economic structure.

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what is an example of a non authoritarian communist country?

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there aren’t any long-term, widespread examples because the authoritarians co-opted and then marginalized them, but: - the original soviet worker councils prior to lenin - makhnovshchina - worker collective farms like kibbutzim

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"Real communism has never been tried."

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i didn’t say anything close to that. i said you isolated the wrong variable. stalinism is “real communism” as are other non-authoritarian models. it’s authoritarianism that was proven to be bad in the 20th century, with or without the communism. the reverse was not proven in the 20th century.

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"there aren’t any long-term, widespread examples because the authoritarians co-opted and then marginalized them" So at-scale communism in practice has always been co-opted by totalitarians. But I can work in the future...?

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there are several small-scale long-term examples and large-scale short-term examples that did fine internally before being overrun by external forces during a uniquely disruptive time (global unwinding of colonial monarchies). i guess it’s reasonable for people to disagree on how many experiments to allow before abandoning the hypothesis. but i find it strange to feel certain it’s the socioeconomic structure that is the part of the stack proven to cause mass murder when given the following data: 1. authoritarian communism was very murderous 2. authoritarian non-communism was also very murderous 3. non-authoritarian communism was not very murderous but has often (not always) been short-lived especially because most people making this argument also argue: 4. there are many examples of long-lived, widespread non-authoritarian communist policy today in Northern Europe, the USA, Canada, and elsewhere, which have not been very murderous

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4. there are many examples of long-lived, widespread non-authoritarian communist policy today in Northern Europe, the USA, Canada, and elsewhere, which have not been very murderous What's your best at-scale example of a successful "communist" policy?

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i want to reiterate that i do not want to live under communism. i’m not here to argue it’s good or the best option for any country. i’m simply here to argue that “communism kills people” is a weak argument when the data points much more plainly to “authoritarianism kills people,” and many people who make that argument try to minimize how bad fascism is.

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> “communism kills people” is a weak argument when the data points much more plainly to “authoritarianism kills people,” If all at-scale attempts of communist regimes end up as authoritarian, what's the difference?

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the don’t all “end up as authoritarian” as in they evolve to become authoritarian. several were conquered by external authoritarians.

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> the don’t all “end up as authoritarian” But all of the at-scale examples ultimately were authoritarian? This feels pedantic. :)

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how so? the land ended up authoritarian but under a different regime. by the same argument you could say in 1942 that the French Revolution “ended up authoritarian” after Germany conquered it, or that imperialist Japan “ended up a capitalist democracy.” not pedantic.

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