lücas on Warpcast

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lücas pfp

Genocide according to… South Africa and Nicaragua (the former a failing state, the latter a dictatorship) …and according to activist teenagers buying up hearts and minds war propaganda of Iran… probably the shittiest place to live on earth.

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Chainleft pfp

And Colombia, and Holocaust professors (living in and out of Israel), multiple NGOs... Basically anyone not threathened by the US. Also I suggest learning more about Iran. I've been there and while I don't like their regime, it's quite a modern & beautiful country to live in.

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lücas pfp

Not discussing the rich cultural heritage of Iran. Aligning ones politics with that of their regime is just not a brilliant move. Being threatened by the US is not the only prerequisite for supporting jews and their fight for a sovereign nation. For some, its enough to simply have visited and have friends there :)

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

lol you literally said "the shittiest place to live" and he simply refuted just on that then you strawmanned it into "aligning ones politics with that of their regime" kek

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lücas pfp

it's a shitty place to live precisely because of the Iranian regime - i don't differentiate between those two. here's some wikipedia links to familiarise yourself with the subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahsa_Amini_protests

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

no, thanks no one asked for further explanations why it's a shitty place the point was you strawmanning "aligning politics with regime" while the original cast didn't say that at all and even made it clear that he doesn't like the regime either strawmanning a strawmanning nice

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lücas pfp

The “aligning…” referred to content discussed prior to @chainleft’s comment, whose contribution I appreciated & reiterated that I also differentiate btw country and regime. Pulling out the strawman argument is easy. I can do the same for being told that those who aren’t anti Israel are threatened by the US.

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

fair then, the og cast obviously agrees with this particular policy of the "shitty" regimes, but no indication that his personal politics is aligned with them. one surely doesn't have to disagree with everything from another that he generally opposes. tho i can refrain from calling this one strawmanning this time

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lücas pfp

also in fairness to og cast by @prosocialise I’m not trying to strawman him and make his arguments synonymous with Iranian foreign policy. All I ask is some awareness of the power games taking place in the Middle East and awareness that we do play into the interests of warring groups when we share certain info.

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

The US has been dropping hundreds of bombs on the middle east EVERY DAY for more than a decade. We have been engaged in war there for almost 50 years. Us bombing their land, not vice versa. It is important to keep that in mind to have some perspective of what the "interests of warring groups" there might be

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lücas pfp

Yeah that sucks and that was some bad neocon foreign policy. The US invents its enemies that it then decides to fight. Arab states also go to war with each other tho. The US just picks which side to help. Kinda like you with Iran and Hamas lol

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

So you don't allow us to cast anything that any invented enemy of the US might agree with. Do you work for them?

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lücas pfp

Who’s them? You can cast stuff that’s less biased, more on topic, with less inflammatory language. We don’t accept calling it a genocide, as it’s urban warfare between Hamas and the IDF with civilians in the crossfires. I feel sorry for them. I also feel sorry for the 120k firebombed in Dresden. War sucks

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

hold on now you gotta clarify what you mean by "civilians in the crossfires" in your view, does it equate to "collateral damage"?

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lücas pfp

Yes But I don't discount there are vengeful and extremist factions of the IDF that overstep what should be permissible. I also think they've rekt their international standing I just dont think calling it genocide and throwing sissy fits about it (in the interest of the other side's extremists) is worth it

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

I do think "genocide" is a pretty meaningless term at this point and it should be left for the court to decide. Meanwhile, I wouldn't call it "factions" as it seems to imply that there's no systematic intent to harm civilians. But that's for another debate

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

Why is the term genocide meaningless? It makes it clear that entire populations are being harmed.

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

Plenty of words can be used to convey the meaning of "entire population are being harmed", and calling it genocide or not doesn't change that reality either. The difference is that "genocide" has a legal definition and the ruling shall be made by the court.

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

Many words have legal definitions and popular definitions. Just because a court uses them doesn't mean we shouldn't.

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

I never said "shouldn't" I said it is imo meaningless at this point.

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

Considering there are legal international repercussions, I disagree.

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

And these repercussions are not gonna be materialized or not just because more people are using the word, precisely as you put it - "legal"

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

I completely disagree. The more we say it, the more likely there will be repercussions. You have tremendous power. USE YOUR VOICE!

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

If the internal justice system sways because of narratives and sentiments, we may as well let mainstream media run the world

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

The justice system is embodied by people and they are not manifesting an objective separate will or reality. The justice system is the manifestation and application of the beliefs of a society. It must change and will change according to the position and will of that society.

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

Def disagree in the context of "genocide" we've been discussing. The starting point is the globally consented legal framework for such definitions is unbiased. Then we shall insist on equal implementation in all cases, but the existing framework shall not be changed by how much the narratives/sentiments demand it.

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

You forget that judges are people and their interpretation of the laws and the facts can only be subjective.

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

That's why you always aim to establish a house of as diverse as possible judges to minimize the subjectivity and biases.

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

They all still are immersed in society and are influenced by the perspective of the people

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

And we are still living in a world where people constantly hold opposing beliefs. In addition, the law is still written down in the exact words with the intent to limit alternative interpretations. you can only interpret as much until you have no other way but changing it.

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

True, and many people are certain that by the definition of the law, Israel is commiting genocide.

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

and often the masses are wrong. it doesn't matter what many people think if there is an accepted existing legal framework that can be used to process the case and make a judgement people can keep saying what they believe, i only claim that sometimes it's pointless to do so

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

"accepted existing legal framework" accepted by who?

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

as i said before, the premise is "The starting point is the globally consented legal framework for such definitions is unbiased." you can't only accept/reject it by if it's convenient for you. if you want to change the law, then that's another process which i also discussed previously

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

then try to argue why the existing law is unjust. throwing inspirational quotes said by someone in an argument is playing credentialism

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

I've never heard the term credentialism. What is that?

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russian_acai🐱🎫🧦 pfp

russian_acai🐱🎫🧦

look it up on internet yourself plz

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Prosocialise Foundation 🎩 pfp

Prosocialise Foundation 🎩

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lücas pfp

@prosocialise, @acai is nearer your point of view than me and came to defend your pov but look how you totally just disengage with him 😄 Seems like you require someone to reinforce the exact same views you’ve had reinforced through your latest YouTube video binge Otherwise you’re just not gonna play ball lol

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