Kartik
@slokh
Ngl recently I’ve immediately churned when trying any products that have anything to do with an ERC20 or points
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Coop
@coopahtroopa.eth
Hmm not sure I understand this. We're in crypto - to pretend that tokens or points are not the single biggest unlock for creating a net new generation of product experiences feels weird to me. I respect your desire to find crypto products that have PMF in the absence of incentives but hasn't been the case so far and probs won't for a long time IMO
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Kartik
@slokh
It hasn't been the case that crypto products with incentives have found PMF 🤷 It's the biggest unlock in the eyes of people in crypto who have yet to break out of the bubble. It feels weird this is the norm and just feels grifty to me. Building a good product with incentives later (i.e. Rainbow) is different.
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Coop
@coopahtroopa.eth
I'm not saying they need to have incentives - I'm saying that products that focus on tokens have historically been the most widely used in crypto. Uniswap, Metamask, Coinbase, OpenSea, TopShot the list goes on. Olaf said Bitcoin is the crypto product with the most PMF. I agree we need to break out of the bubble - I disagree that in order to do that we need to pretend tokens don't exist or aren't the category defining asset that makes this new generation of tech valuable relative to whats existed before.
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Femi
@omotoso
Imo we can build great things without Erc20s. It only takes a bit of imagination and some effort to find what people find useful
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comm intern
@comm.eth
Bitcoin doesn’t have PMF among incentive chasers; those people descend into riskier cryptoassets - ETH > DeFi > SOL > memecoins - until they hit their risk tolerance. Bitcoin has PMF among ideologically aligned macro investors who view it as a dollar hedge. These are the whales and institutions who will never sell. The returns are more or less a perk for them. The same drives the financial cults of GME, What really drives crypto PMF is ideological fit: a belief that crypto can enable a freer, better, fairer society in the long run. Farcaster is a great example of that (freeing social media from big tech). And speculation lives on top of that ideological alignment (a la Degen). TL;DR: ideology -> incentives not vice versa
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