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Murtaza Hussain
@mazmhussain
Video of JD Vance and Trump literally yelling at Zelensky during a public presser. These disagreements should have been handled privately this is very strange behavior.
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Zach
@zd
Hmmm I didn't see or hear either of them raise their voice... I definitely heard a stern tone, but not "literally yelling" Why do you think this is very strange behavior, and should be handled privately? Isn't there something to be said about making these things transparent?
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Matthew Fox 🌐
@matthewfox
The tone and line of conversation + the Ukraine not being included in their own talks is pretty bad imo Ask the hard questions, but don't resort to ad hominem/dismissing a president in war while not letting him answer any of your questions Really feels like they are little bro-ing him, Putin and the US are the ones gambling with WW3 not the Ukraine - they are just the proxy battleground +1 for transparency, -10 for the execution
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Zach
@zd
You bring up some fair points here, and your conclusion of "+1 for transparency, -10 for execution" resonates w me Zooming out: If we think from first principles: 1. Why should the US be fighting other countries' wars? 2. Are we allowed to say "We've given you enough"? If yes, when? If no, why not?
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Zach
@zd
I hope you don't feel like I'm trying to dismiss your points and follow up with even more questions - I agree Trump and Vance are being harsh here, though I also think they have every right to be My perception of the situation is - Biden admin gave a lot of money to Ukraine, but didn't solve the problem - Trump is upset we "wasted" that money + is taking a different approach - Zelensky seems scared to lose his country to an imperialist (Putin) - JD seems to be trying his best given what he has (even if he made a comment that made people perceive him negatively) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Sinaver
@sinaver.eth
Ukrainian perception (and I am originally from Crimea): - The war is going on for 11 years, and there were 4 US presidents in between, Minsk agreements, yet still Putin invaded; let alone 1994 Budapest Memorandum signed by US to guarantee independence of Ukraine - Trump figures out the easiest deal he can make with Putin without much effort or direct US involvement which will get him a peacemaker badge - Trump needs to convey this story to Americans, but in that case they need to portray Ukraine & this war in certain way, so that the weak peace deal looks like a win - Zelenskii doesn't agree with this narrative, and it backfires - This would happen one way or another, it just revealed future disagreement sooner
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Matthew Fox 🌐
@matthewfox
Generally agree, they don't have too and should be able to say enough anytime However America always serves its own interests, just skewed through the current powers lens - which warps those interests and adds a best before date to every move This whole situation sucks, any plan to end it is reasonable at this point - but if you're not in your own peace talks you can guess where it goes when the dealmaker walks But it would be remiss to dismiss US/NATO role in this problem existing in the first place EU is a shit show too, reality is this video is a snippet of generally more hostile global politics that we should expect as we unearth decades of misaligned interests of a world gone by
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