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borodutch
@warpcastadmin.eth
gm
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Sam Iglesias
@sam
a worm could have made that pattern
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fz3n
@fz3n
Then it is neither a 6 or a 9, it is worm pattern.
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Sam Iglesias
@sam
the correct answer (I think): 1) the intention of making the mark is a factual question (could have been intended as either or nothing at all) 2) what the mark can be interpreted as can be either 6, 9, (or something else) but we have social conventions around appealing to intention, 1, to settle it
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fz3n
@fz3n
Symbols exist to communicate ideas, and the communicator of the idea is the creator. That's why we care about intent. '6' and '9' are ideas larger than their arabic numerals. Focusing on intent is a key underpinning to how communication works at all. Or a worm did it, and it means the worm crawled that way.
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Sam Iglesias
@sam
My point is a little more subtle. I claim that symbols can be assigned interpretations. They don’t have meaning intrinsically. What the intent of a mark is is a related but separate point.
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fz3n
@fz3n
Sure, assigned interpretations exist and are real, but to wrap back to the original image, there does exist a truth, meaning the interpretations can be true or false, and not all equally valid.
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Sam Iglesias
@sam
imagine another case where the number fell off a gas station price sign. what’s the truth, 6 or 9? 1) the number’s function in the price when it fell off? 2) the orientation of the number when it was originally printed in the number factory? I think saying it *has* to be either a 6 or a 9 in this case is silly.
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Sam Iglesias
@sam
Imagine you insist that it was a six when it fell off. So it’s a six. You recover the numeral (you claim the truth is it’s a six), price goes up by three cents. You replace it the mark upside down as a nine. Is it: 1) a six incorrectly orientated as a nine? 2) simply a symbol now functioning as a nine? Probably 2
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fz3n
@fz3n
Symbols are not equivalent to the ideas they represent, they are merely references to them. This isn't unlike how pointers behave in programming languages. In your examples, you follow the life of an object used to represent an idea. In each state of time and for each question though, there is a single truth.
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Sam Iglesias
@sam
Here I disagree, and the argument starts to go off the rails. Symbols have meanings attached to them by us. They have no *intrinsic* meaning whatsoever, they MIGHT only have a history of use (at best). Arguing that the object we interpret as a six or a nine must *exclusively* be a six or a nine seems very limiting.
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