rish on Warpcast

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borodutch pfp

@warpcastadmin.eth

ok farcaster, let me introduce https://thefarcasterexperiment.com/ to you all basically, @dwr.eth claims that there were no breaking changes and only my stuff is broken or that neynar (cc @rish) had something broken well, let's test what @dwr.eth is saying. i launched a farcaster hub from ground up, then connected to it with official node js farcaster lib, then made @healthbot use this hub no third-party software. no me touching the backend, nodejs dependency or the hub let's see for how long this can last, i give it 2-3 months before there is a breaking change that makes me touch the code to make a thing as simple as publishing a cast every hour going again, all native farcaster hub stack, no extra dependencies, just something that "still works since the time it went permissionless" or whatever what are your bets? when will it break? this is a true stress-test of dev trust being broken or upheld

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Dan Romero pfp

We are moving to a new version of the protocol in January called snapchain. So it will likely break then. We're not a mature, at-scale protocol. Still actively being built. I understand that you're busy with your own startup that you don't have time to follow along with all the changes. But the vast majority of active developers on the protocol, when surveyed, voted for moving faster and focusing on user growth vs. moving slower and making sure everything is stable.

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@warpcastadmin.eth

coming back to the original topic, "how did farcaster break trust" this is how. this is my original feedback, there is no trust in whatever one builds surviving even 2-3 months without being touched and you're missing the larger set of devs that can spend some time (but not all their full-time work time) benefiting the ecosystem *most* of the things i remember using on farcaster (including 3rd party clients) from 2023 (or even early 2024) are not here today — and the most basic reason is the need to constantly support the software with never-ending breaking changes

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Dan Romero pfp

@woj.eth @rish curious what you think about snapchain since you deal with the pain of the existing protocol not working? Boro seems convinced that we don't communicate this well to developers and lose trust.

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rish pfp

some small number of hard forks will be necessary. I empathize with the pain of switching. However, the alternative to not making these changes is ossifying something that doesn't scale. That means we will serve the few of us who are here now and then protocol will decay and die. Scaling while unfortunately losing a few of us is the only way out. No one here - Merkle, Neynar, etc. is making breaking changes unless absolutely necessary. Ofc we all think fewer breaking changes are better and that not having them would be nice. However, I'd tradeoff a couple breaking changes to grow from 100k users -> 100M users. Re: comms - I think there were 1-2 instances of moving unexpectedly fast (e.g. longcasts), 1-2 instances of directional changes regardless of pace (e.g. automod curated channel moderation to members only) that might have caught folks off guard. Snapchain doesn't have that problem imo. It's still months away and there's already been a few month's heads up boz.com/articles/communication-is-the-job

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borodutch pfp

@warpcastadmin.eth

> No one here - Merkle, Neynar, etc. is making breaking changes unless absolutely necessary https://github.com/BigWhaleLabs/botcaster/blob/main/src/helpers/fetchNotifications.ts this didn't work in the previous version because v1 api to get notifications for mentions and replies started to return an empty array without me ever touching the code i solved it by migrating to v2 fetching all notifications (unideal, but this works), i don't know if v1 notification fetching works now or not this, i consider a breaking change (even though it's probably an unaddressed bug) this is why i'm running thefarcasterexperiment.com/ on a native hub, not on neynar — because i wanted to show @dwr.eth and @v that currently there is no way to build with confidence that a thing that i build today will work in a few months so only large projects that require part-time work on them are justified on farcaster with no small projects (like @remindme) worth doing at all

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rish pfp

see what I said about that here https://warpcast.com/rish/0x8ec447fd

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rish pfp

> this, i consider a breaking change (even though it's probably an unaddressed bug) I think this is fair @warpcastadmin.eth, I referred to it as such myself in the cast I linked above and also why we told you to migrate to v2

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borodutch pfp

@warpcastadmin.eth

@dwr.eth this is an example of a breaking change if you're looking for one one of many that i've encountered

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