Owocki on Warpcast

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rathermercurial

@rathermercurial.eth

Listening to the latest Green Pill on agents (which is pretty good overall), and was impressed with the self-unconscious elitism with which they approached the concept of "infinite back rooms". After such a great jam on using AI to cultivate *collective* intelligence, when it comes to "big" decisions, these guys were suddenly only interested in making backrooms of "great man" figures (who ofc looked like themselves and their idols). Only a cursory thought was given to including voices of the workers, and even then it was only as AI avatars. We have the tools right now to make these backrooms of avatars trained on the collective wisdom of the crowd.. But a tech founder only sees ways to replicate themselves and those who they aspire to be. We must prioritize the proletarianization of the developer class (yeah, even @owocki ), or risk letting them reduce working people to a second-class "Implementor Avatar" in their backrooms of techno-feudalist AI backscratchers https://youtu.be/bnkhu4Bx9C4

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The backroom section was just about the first backroom we’d each create. In no part of the episode did we say that would be a fixed set or that other back rooms were not worth of creating. You are arguing with a straw man. The Eliza framework is open source. You are welcome to create your own backroom w your own ideas. Tho it is easier to just criticize others ideas.

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rathermercurial

@rathermercurial.eth

I don't think you understand the post or context, but thanks for the reply! Have a happy crimmis if you celebrate. Hope you get some time in with loved ones today.

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You accused me of “unconscoius elitism” in ur OP, tagged me, and now you don’t want to engage? geez... pick a lane! :P My view TLDR: Im assuming good faith on your part and hope you can do the same for me... I understand the critique you posted and the context. I just think its misguided. Because IMO it does not consider the context of the comments, creates a straw man, and conveys a worldview that sets an impossible standard for any builder to actualy adhere to! /1

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Here is my view in full!: 0. I do not have elite credentials or advantages of being from silicon valley. I am from rural pennsylvania and went to a public school. 1. Impromptu on the episode, I designed an AI agent swarm that was intended for that specific use case. This was under the framing of “what is the 1st agent swarm ud build?” 2. I never said other ai agent swarms for other use cases were not a good idea. I never said others shouldn’t design AI agents for other use cases. I never said (nor implied) anything about working people. What I designed was for me, for my use case. In MY context. According to my interests as a sovereign person. 2/

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3. Web3 leftists seem to have an implicit view that builders need to do the impossible and be everything to everyone. That me designing 1 ai agent swarm obviates the value of other AI swarms. You took the convo out of context and claimed that we have “unconscious elitism” because we are interested in designing AI swarms for contexts that you wouldn’t design for. This "you must solve every problem, espeically my pet problem" worldview creates incredible stop energy for builders actually trying to do things. https://x.com/VitalikButerin/status/1560725412786753536

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4. Eliza is decentralized and open source. AI Agents can be built by anyone who puts their minds to it. If web3 leftists actually cared about making a true impact and proletariazation of the developer class, they would (a) quit the virtue signaling (b) start inspiring the builder class instead of shaming them (c) give them space to divide and conquer, (d) advocate for their value sets in a constructive way, (e) and most of all, join the "developer class" by helping to be creating swarms with these goals yourself . 5. Leftist virtue signalling social media & shaming culture failed in the 2010s. I am writing this because I think its time to update the way you engage if you want to build a movement! Virtue Signalling is dead. We're in the "proof of virtue" era. 6. TLDR I think you engaged in good faith but I do believe that your critique (and others like it) are misguided. Regardless of that, I presume you are a good person with good intentions and so I hope you have a happy holiday too! /fin

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7. Speaking of unconstructive engagements with builders, you still owe gitcoin a response here to your (unresearched) critique here. https://x.com/mathildawrites/status/1861843636331381236

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rathermercurial

@rathermercurial.eth

Non-code work is work. And because it pays *far* less than technical work (in web3, typically far under any minimum wage), we not only have to work full+ time in web3, but we have to side-hustle just to make rent. All while our orgs pay top-dollar to secure dev time. (that's income inequality created by devs, BTW.) Not everyone can create an agent. That's because we're busy doing the work nobody else wants to, often for poverty wages (delivered 6 months late, if at all). When you accuse someone of virtue signaling who is 1.) representing their own POV and 2.) is on the short side of a labor aristocracy, you're not only wrong (self-advocacy is not virtue signaling), but you're engaging in violence by silencing those who are advocating for their ability to pay their basic needs from the valuable work they do. That's violence. Now, I'm not looking for a it-for-tat here. I know your intention isn't violence. It'd be cool if you walked back the virtue signaling bit.

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