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rathermercurial
@rathermercurial.eth
Listening to the latest Green Pill on agents (which is pretty good overall), and was impressed with the self-unconscious elitism with which they approached the concept of "infinite back rooms". After such a great jam on using AI to cultivate *collective* intelligence, when it comes to "big" decisions, these guys were suddenly only interested in making backrooms of "great man" figures (who ofc looked like themselves and their idols). Only a cursory thought was given to including voices of the workers, and even then it was only as AI avatars. We have the tools right now to make these backrooms of avatars trained on the collective wisdom of the crowd.. But a tech founder only sees ways to replicate themselves and those who they aspire to be. We must prioritize the proletarianization of the developer class (yeah, even @owocki ), or risk letting them reduce working people to a second-class "Implementor Avatar" in their backrooms of techno-feudalist AI backscratchers https://youtu.be/bnkhu4Bx9C4
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Owocki
@owocki
The backroom section was just about the first backroom we’d each create. In no part of the episode did we say that would be a fixed set or that other back rooms were not worth of creating. You are arguing with a straw man. The Eliza framework is open source. You are welcome to create your own backroom w your own ideas. Tho it is easier to just criticize others ideas.
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rathermercurial
@rathermercurial.eth
I don't think you understand the post or context, but thanks for the reply! Have a happy crimmis if you celebrate. Hope you get some time in with loved ones today.
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Owocki
@owocki
You accused me of “unconscoius elitism” in ur OP, tagged me, and now you don’t want to engage? geez... pick a lane! :P My view TLDR: Im assuming good faith on your part and hope you can do the same for me... I understand the critique you posted and the context. I just think its misguided. Because IMO it does not consider the context of the comments, creates a straw man, and conveys a worldview that sets an impossible standard for any builder to actualy adhere to! /1
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Owocki
@owocki
Here is my view in full!: 0. I do not have elite credentials or advantages of being from silicon valley. I am from rural pennsylvania and went to a public school. 1. Impromptu on the episode, I designed an AI agent swarm that was intended for that specific use case. This was under the framing of “what is the 1st agent swarm ud build?” 2. I never said other ai agent swarms for other use cases were not a good idea. I never said others shouldn’t design AI agents for other use cases. I never said (nor implied) anything about working people. What I designed was for me, for my use case. In MY context. According to my interests as a sovereign person. 2/
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Owocki
@owocki
3. Web3 leftists seem to have an implicit view that builders need to do the impossible and be everything to everyone. That me designing 1 ai agent swarm obviates the value of other AI swarms. You took the convo out of context and claimed that we have “unconscious elitism” because we are interested in designing AI swarms for contexts that you wouldn’t design for. This "you must solve every problem, espeically my pet problem" worldview creates incredible stop energy for builders actually trying to do things. https://x.com/VitalikButerin/status/1560725412786753536
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rathermercurial
@rathermercurial.eth
Hey Kevin, thanks for popping into the chat to work this out. And sorry I had to enforce my holiday time with the block feature. For future reference: I'll usually only bother to defend a position publically, so feel free to shoot me a DM if you're personally upset by something I say. I've been punching up at your station for years, and wasn't expecting you to finally take notice on Christmas of all days. Anyway, I'll reply to your posts in turn, but let me preface that I don't really care if what I said was right or well-researched. I care that it was heard. After being ignored for years (despite reams of formal and informal research and thousands of anecdotal accounts backing me up), being heard becomes more important than being right. I'm an agitator. My job is getting you to pay attention to important issues that get ignored. My job is not diplomat, or solution-giver. And I'm not obligated to engage in some other way which you may prefer. That said, I'd rather see a productive outcome than otherwise
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