In following debates since Gore v. Bush in 2000 (rarely watching live though), it strikes me I've never seen anyone win a debate by any reasonable standard or understanding of "winning." I've only seen candidates losing, through mostly unforced errors or multi-opponent dogpiling. I've never witnessed a 1:1 "defeat" as such. It's more a survivor style progressive stack ranking with a last-candidate-standing type outcome. But most debates, nobody self-immolates, so you get a sense of debates mostly not mattering. I do think it makes a small difference on the margins even when nobody self-immolates though.

Blogger at ribbonfarm.com, running summerofprotocols.com, host of /gloom ☀️

I would say that Obama’s “proceed governor” was a judo flip nippon. And last night one candidate’s sweaty unraveling was triggered by the other candidate repeatedly and strategically triggering them. Wouldn’t that count as a victory?