azb on Warpcast

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https://warpcast.com/~/channel/politics

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Stuart pfp

This interview with Grayzone reporter Kit Klarenberg is wild af, helped me understand the situation with not just Ukraine and Russia but the US and the world too. Western imperialists are headed for nuclear war and maybe no one can stop it. There's no logical endgame but nuclear war and annihilation. There's no other strategy. I want humanity to rise up! Human beings are capable of love and beautiful society. We can move beyond war. But how? I hate just waiting for the world war I don't want to happen at all but it doesn't seem that any political organizing makes a difference at all. But I think our power has to be in uniting all of humanity that wants peace. Which again leads me back to crypto values, so we have a starting point, but how can we organize all humanity to build a whole new system? That's our #1 political question now but if we answer it before the collapse they'll take us out. 🤷‍♂️ https://youtu.be/FlIOYJzjquI?feature=shared

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azb pfp

The guy whose narrative closely aligns with Kremlin propaganda probably isn't the best source of information about the “end game of Ukraine”.

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Yeah to be fair idk anything about the guy and take Grayzone reports with a grain of salt. But if you have anything specific you'd like to address as propaganda I'm interested to hear more. It's Bri asking "What is the endgame here?" And it's a good question. Ukrainians have been screwed by Russia and screwed again by the West. The war would've been over years ago if the US wasn't prolonging it as a proxy war for its own selfish interests. I didn't hear anything pro- Russia from Kit. But again I'm happy to hear another perspective.

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azb pfp

I turned the interview on, and he instantly reminded me of Pablo González (who also was supposed to be “wrongly detained”, but in the end turned out to be a GRU operative), so I looked at his articles and–would you believe!–they full of usual Kremlin's talking points. I can't comment on the specific claims he makes in the interview, as I'd rather spare myself two hours of listening to that sort of thing…

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Do you have any recommended sources for good information about the Ukraine conflict that don't align with either Russian or Western imperialist propaganda?

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I don't think there's one that's 100% reliable, you basically have to learn to spot the bias and read between the lines. If there's talk about the Western imperialism in the context of Ukraine, you should immediately get suspicious, as it's usually used to divert the attention from the one that's actually more relevant to that war: the Russian imperialism. Taking the proxy war claim as the example: yes, you could say the West was happy to use it as a proxy war, but it just isn't factual to claim that it instigated it. In fact, if Ukraine hadn't put up so much resistance in the beginning, it's rather likely that the West's response wouldn't have been drastically stronger than the performative “oh no, that's a bad thing to do, Russia”. Just as it happened with the invasion of Georgia in 2008.

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Stuart pfp

But didn't Zelenskyy run on ending the war through diplomacy, was about to, then the US came in promising unlimited weapons if they kept the war going? Also, I'm an American so my primary concern is stopping the evil of the US Empire, so I can't imagine that is Kremlin propaganda, it's the primary political goal of my life and all anti-fascist Americans.

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Obviously, not all is Kremlin propaganda, sometimes it can be just the logic of “if the US is bad, it follows that Russia is less bad” that misses the point in that case. The “ending the war” narrative actually is propaganda, though. Russia could end the war anytime it wished to; it just wants to do it on terms that strip Ukraine of as much sovereignty as possible. That requires convincing the Western public that the support should be dropped.

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Then I pose the same question that Bri did with the interview: what's the endgame? Defeat Russia? What does that even mean besides nuclear annihilation of humanity? Obviously we want Russia to retreat but how could it be achieved besides a peace deal involving ceding territory?

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azb pfp

The endgame would be convincing Russia that bullying everyone into submission is not a viable strategy anymore.

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How? We have no leverage besides the nuclear threat. Obviously we've been trying and failing for years now to do it any other way. Further escalation risks the end of humanity.

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