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MM
@listen2mm.eth
I was told the Trump admin would be effectively the same for Palestinians as a Dem admin. Unsurprisingly, it’s taken less than a week to see that is definitively false and just as dumb of a thought as it sounded before the election https://www.axios.com/2025/01/25/trump-israel-bomb-shipment-hold-gaza
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Rundle 🍖
@rundle
I definitely think he'll be worse in some ways, but I also think he's going to be "donating" less which will have a major impact on the war. I think the key thing from this is that it looks like Biden authorised the sale of these weapons and then reneged on their release Do I think he'll be the same as/worse than Trump? No. Do I think his actions towards the Palestinians were horrific? Absolutely. I just fkn hate the choice of horrific vs worse
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@listen2mm.eth
Not sure what you mean by donating less -- Trump has already shown he's willing to continue supporting Israel's war on Gaza. In fact he'll gladly support any means to an end as long as he can claim the war is over so the details can be swept under the rug. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/24/foreign-aid-israel-egypt As far as reneging on delivering arms, it was a hold which was pretty easy to rationalize (to me at least...) as moral/humanitarian given the already devastating results of the Israeli offensive. Of course we're bothered by the choice of "horrific vs worse" but that is unfortunately the reality we face in many decisions. The sensible and moral choice is the less bad option. People who said a Dem admin would be essentially the same for Gazans as a Trump admin were being extremely naive, at best. I'm pissed off that those people tried to claim some sort of moral high ground instead of being honest about which option would actually reduce negative outcomes for the people in need.
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Rundle 🍖
@rundle
I hadn't seen this, I was under the impression he'd be stopping all of it including Israel so that's a bummer. This whole term is likely to be a bummer on a humanitarian front. I definitely didn't expect Trump to be no worse, but I also largely blame the Dem administration for the fact that he's in. The scale of atrocities that took place under the Biden administration makes the Dems almost un-votable in my eyes, because if the lesser of two evils is still evil, then it is our democratic duty to look elsewhere. Turning away from the Dems means Trump was a shoe-in, but that needs to be a galvanising moment for the Dems to actually figure out how to represent the people that vote for them, rather than push to become more centrist (as has historically been the way) For context we have a similar situation in Aus. Dem-adjacent party one in a landslide after years of Republican-adjacent control, and has spent the entire term pro Israel amongst other violations of human rights.
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@listen2mm.eth
As for not voting for the lesser of two evils, that is an idealist philosophical stance since in the context of the US election, there were only two possible outcomes — Trump or Harris. If a third party had actually put in the work to build a viable campaign, then the context would be different. But we have to operate in reality and recognize our decisions have widespread effects. Particularly when deciding on who is leading one of the most influential countries in the world for the next 4 years. Arguments for punishing Dems so they disband or face some reckoning where they are forced to move left ignore a couple points: - Dems losing has never moved them further left. Bernie moved the party left by galvanizing a base and encouraging participation, not by losing and fracturing the party. - the consequences of Trump and Republicans taking power are significant. More people are going to suffer (Palestinians, middle/lower class Americans, etc), corruption will increase, global instability will increase, etc
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MM
@listen2mm.eth
I can only partially agree. Dems proved their weakness losing to Trump again. They are far from a perfect party working in a very flawed political system and it’s fair to place some blame on them. But that doesn’t absolve the Trump admin of their malice and it doesn’t absolve voters of getting duped by the same conman a second time. Blaming the Biden admin for the actions of the Israeli government doesn’t make sense to me. Israel is a strategic and democratic ally who was victim to a brutal terrorist attack, it is not surprising they retaliated against Hamas and that the US supports their ally in that context. The means of warfare are not determined by the US, we don’t have troops on the ground. If someone is going to make a point about Biden aiding and abetting the Israeli offensive, they have to acknowledge that Trump is a more fervent supporter of Netanyahu and Israel than Biden so thinking it would be better under Trump is illogical and naive.
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