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@degencummunist.eth
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HH
@hamud
ok but here me out on this. This is just how businesses have conducted their operations for several thousand years? you have merchants, merchant guilds hiring and firing skilled labourers, slavery etc. When did capitalism begin?
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@degencummunist.eth
Nah dog, they were not the predominant modes of economic production although yes they resembled capitalist markets. Capitalism started when they overthrew feudalism and property changed from being a divine right of the king to a βmeritocraticβ human right through profit seeking.
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HH
@hamud
wasn't feudalism just a break between the ancient and current modes of production?, What concrete differences are there between the way ancients, (rome, babylon, egypt, india, china, etc) had and our current modes. They had the concept of futures contracts, global trade existed back then, there were merchants networks. Do you get what I mean?
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@degencummunist.eth
I get you and understand the confusion. But markets β capitalism. In all of the examples you gave, to own βcapital producing propertyβ you had to be a royal or noble or appointed by one. So the only way a merchant could own his own ship and keep ALL the profits for themselves was to be granted noble status. Thus our distinction between them begins when you have the sale of the means of production between two non nobles.
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rathermercurial
@rathermercurial.eth
The "ancient" modes of production you cite are feudal, so the difference between those and capitalism are some type of "divine right" to direct production via violent coersion, and financial privilege to do so by the same means (though usually by threat of economic violence rather than force). In either case, rents are extracted from working people (the producers of value in society) by the ruling class (those with greater access to the coercive apparatus of the state). Many systems have markets. Capitalism is distinct in that it has a market-based economy *and* private property rights for those with excess resources (the rich), a productive orientation toward profit (rather than value), and wage labor relations in which those with private property are given the legal privilege to play middleman between the productive and consumptive activities of the working class (those without excess resources), thereby extracting value from the day-to-day activities of society without adding any additional value.
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