Vitalik Buterin on Warpcast

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Vitalik Buterin pfp

Vitalik Buterin

One meta-note on the situation, is that in my timeline I have seen exactly zero non-western people defending Durov's arrest, but quite a few western people. Definitely don't want to say that they don't exist (after all, my timeline is biased just like anyone's), just this is what my sample is so far. IMO this is another example of the decoupling of liberalism and westernism that https://x.com/MacaesBruno often talks about.

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Mac Budkowski ᵏ pfp

Mac Budkowski ᵏ

Same on my timeline, feels like some Western people forgot the fundaments of their culture

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casslin.eth pfp

grass is always greener on the other side: maybe that explains? ppl who live under ample freedom may crave for more gov. control, while ppl from the other side has 1st hand experience how excessive gov. control doesn't help, but make things worse. (more caveats needed, just a generalized statement)

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The rule of law, equality before the law, and the right to a fair trial are all liberal values (among others, of course). So I think you can support liberalism without necessarily being against the investigation/arrest. What matters are the specific charges, and evidence which we don't know yet.

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J. Valeska 🦊🎩🫂 pfp

J. Valeska 🦊🎩🫂

what is western liberalism is just a fake?.. there are tons of laws that could charge almost everyone out there... and we are adopting the worst of the US laws about the powers of the deep state.. to act against terrorism and so on.. but using them with political intent, applied to other normal crimes and criminals, to spread fear, etc.. I think they also mentioned that this time.. I have no idea about Durov's life.. but.. I think everyone should have access to encrypted messaging.. If I would talk with you about something, no one should have the right to listen to it.. until we choose to open this window.. just like privacy should be...

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assayer pfp

it started a long ago with the Jordan Peterson cult of the Western culture, and in 2024 the process is finishing with the US changing "human rights" to "law-based order", and rising US-UN tensions. it is a different world now https://warpcast.com/assayer/0xc9b5aea2

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dusan.framedl.eth

probably marginal effect, but suspicious circumstances don't help the situation. https://warpcast.com/mxmnr/0x8801d781

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HAKA on SOL pfp

i don't think there's any decoupling of liberalism and westernism. liberal / western governments have always regulated media and media platforms.

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@baseddesigner.eth

Do you count Balaji as western person This western vs eastern thing doesn’t really work for individuals especially if they more between those often

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parseb pfp

There's nothing to defend. It's just the state of the world. Can we be skeptical of Durov or that's conspiring against simple-mindedness? Murky character with dubious timing at best. Putin's dog at worst.

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Est3la pfp

By the same logic, gun manufacturers should be arrested because their creation is causing damage but they are not. So I wonder when is gov intervention appropriate and when is it no? What is the role or moral obligation of a creator whose creation is causing damage (or has unintended consequences)?

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K1ngHandy🦁 pfp

Sets a dangerous precedent for privacy focused applications

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sand.base.eth pfp

I think non-westerns don’t have the anti-Russian bias to begin with. And they are more cypherpunk because are the ones struggling in the third world countries. We know the problems Durov and others are trying to solve.

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Izzy💫🎩 pfp

There’s always choice of opinions But candidly, d’you support his arrest? If we’re to judge by the French’s display during the Olympics opening ceremony?

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There are milions of non-westerns defending Durov including myself and many other of the middle-eastern community that I know.

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zenxosa◼️Ⓜ️🎩

Maybe you’re not getting as much feedback from the non-western people as you think

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i don’t want to make assumptions but this is probably because you follow more western people. and also from personal observation non - western people focus more on problems that directly affect them.

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People living in democracies view laws and the judiciary as more legitimate than people living in dictatorships? Perhaps when people perceive that there are broad freedoms, people get less guarded about some authoritarianism directed at the fringes...

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matthewb.eth pfp

western folks who have not experienced authoritarianism first-hand are more likely to desire greater gov control, precisely because they do not (yet) understand the consequences.

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Arjan | That Poetry Guy pfp

Arjan | That Poetry Guy

What I've seen from any discussion about this, is that it is singularly measured against a dimension of freedom of speech. I don't think that does justice to the complexity of this matter. Sure, freedom of speech is important, but certainly not the only important freedom. Due to an over-focus on our freedom to be able to say whatever we want, we forget about other freedoms. We don't live in individual bubbles, we live in societies, and in these societies, we need to find a way to safeguard that "all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights" as the Universal Declaration of Human rights puts it. Arresting Durov might not be the way, but I don't think that it's unfair to say that the over-focus on freedom of speech is currently undermining other freedoms, such as "the right to life, liberty and security of person" (article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights) too often.

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