Vitalik Buterin on Warpcast

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Vitalik Buterin pfp

Vitalik Buterin

One meta-note on the situation, is that in my timeline I have seen exactly zero non-western people defending Durov's arrest, but quite a few western people. Definitely don't want to say that they don't exist (after all, my timeline is biased just like anyone's), just this is what my sample is so far. IMO this is another example of the decoupling of liberalism and westernism that https://x.com/MacaesBruno often talks about.

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Mac Budkowski ᵏ pfp

Mac Budkowski ᵏ

Same on my timeline, feels like some Western people forgot the fundaments of their culture

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There are milions of non-westerns defending Durov including myself and many other of the middle-eastern community that I know.

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zenxosa◼️Ⓜ️🎩

Maybe you’re not getting as much feedback from the non-western people as you think

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casslin.eth pfp

grass is always greener on the other side: maybe that explains? ppl who live under ample freedom may crave for more gov. control, while ppl from the other side has 1st hand experience how excessive gov. control doesn't help, but make things worse. (more caveats needed, just a generalized statement)

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i don’t want to make assumptions but this is probably because you follow more western people. and also from personal observation non - western people focus more on problems that directly affect them.

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J. Valeska 🦊🎩🫂 pfp

J. Valeska 🦊🎩🫂

what is western liberalism is just a fake?.. there are tons of laws that could charge almost everyone out there... and we are adopting the worst of the US laws about the powers of the deep state.. to act against terrorism and so on.. but using them with political intent, applied to other normal crimes and criminals, to spread fear, etc.. I think they also mentioned that this time.. I have no idea about Durov's life.. but.. I think everyone should have access to encrypted messaging.. If I would talk with you about something, no one should have the right to listen to it.. until we choose to open this window.. just like privacy should be...

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People living in democracies view laws and the judiciary as more legitimate than people living in dictatorships? Perhaps when people perceive that there are broad freedoms, people get less guarded about some authoritarianism directed at the fringes...

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Est3la pfp

By the same logic, gun manufacturers should be arrested because their creation is causing damage but they are not. So I wonder when is gov intervention appropriate and when is it no? What is the role or moral obligation of a creator whose creation is causing damage (or has unintended consequences)?

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matthewb.eth ↑ 🎩 pfp

matthewb.eth ↑ 🎩

western folks who have not experienced authoritarianism first-hand are more likely to desire greater gov control, precisely because they do not (yet) understand the consequences.

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Arjan | That Poetry Guy

What I've seen from any discussion about this, is that it is singularly measured against a dimension of freedom of speech. I don't think that does justice to the complexity of this matter. Sure, freedom of speech is important, but certainly not the only important freedom. Due to an over-focus on our freedom to be able to say whatever we want, we forget about other freedoms. We don't live in individual bubbles, we live in societies, and in these societies, we need to find a way to safeguard that "all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights" as the Universal Declaration of Human rights puts it. Arresting Durov might not be the way, but I don't think that it's unfair to say that the over-focus on freedom of speech is currently undermining other freedoms, such as "the right to life, liberty and security of person" (article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights) too often.

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The rule of law, equality before the law, and the right to a fair trial are all liberal values (among others, of course). So I think you can support liberalism without necessarily being against the investigation/arrest. What matters are the specific charges, and evidence which we don't know yet.

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I explained the case to mg gf and why it annoys me but then I told her she got other things to figure out than online privacy and the arrest of a billionaire and simply live happily. Think this argument fits with the broader community. Lots of westerners come from a background with a safety net &or accumulated wealth and care about this (almost ideological libertarian) issue while people in other locations prefer to fight other issues first.

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My Korean media timeline shows a completely different perspective. I even saw a TV show celebrating Durov's arrest...🤷‍♂️

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my problem with this is the use of 'freedom of speech' to defend everything. I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be able to voice it. my problem is when hate and discrimination hide behind it. it's funny when people say 'I can say what I like it's freedom of speech' but are not willing to listen to the answers they are given, it works both ways. do I think he should of been arrested probably not, do I think he could/should control his platform better probably. what ever you agree with surely you must agree that there is no room for terrorism and hate in this world.

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it started a long ago with the Jordan Peterson cult of the Western culture, and in 2024 the process is finishing with the US changing "human rights" to "law-based order", and rising US-UN tensions. it is a different world now https://warpcast.com/assayer/0xc9b5aea2

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dusan.framedl.eth

probably marginal effect, but suspicious circumstances don't help the situation. https://warpcast.com/mxmnr/0x8801d781

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Don’t you think it has to do with nationality atp

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Mark pfp

Liberalism and westernism are not always synonymous

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Alpha bomb: https://warpcast.com/altuslord/0x3718b60e

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