Vitalik Buterin on Warpcast

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Vitalik Buterin pfp

Vitalik Buterin

Are validators in the same cluster (eg same exchange, same user) more likely than unrelated validators to miss attestations at the same time? If so, can we tweak rewards to favor decentralized staking? Possibly yes. https://ethresear.ch/t/supporting-decentralized-staking-through-more-anti-correlation-incentives/19116

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Hugo HIRING ✦⁺ pfp

Hugo HIRING ✦⁺

protocol design is the literally coolest job on earth It's like playing the sims or Black & White 2 but with billions (trillions?) of real money dollars $

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agrimony↑🎩 pfp

agrimony↑🎩

i like this proposal

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Lefteris Karapetsas pfp

Lefteris Karapetsas

Don't you think that big operators can just run many validators in many different machines and even geographical locations? iow unless I am missing something this is trivially gameable?

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ncitron.eth pfp

I think an unfortunate reality is that this is likely to cause staking providers to shift their operations to be more distributed rather than more decentralized. We want more distinct entities staking rather than more distributed nodes. I think in-protocol delegation is likely a more promising approach.

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Hugo HIRING ✦⁺ pfp

Hugo HIRING ✦⁺

anti-fragility through clever incentives this is so cool I'm pretty sure this line of thinking will also be effective for promoting client diversity, not just same internet connection infra, but not sure about this simple mechanism being sufficient. Crazy idea: fuzztest validators live with weird blocks and penalize

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polymutex pfp

We need more research like this! Thank you.

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Pawel Pokrywka pfp

I like it. Also, my concern related to gaming it is addressed: Q: Post-MAXEB, won’t big stakers get around this by consolidating all their ETH into one validator? A: The proportional penalty formula would count total amount of ETH, not number of validator IDs, so 4000 staked ETH that acts the same way would be trea

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MrUnderhill pfp

Hmm... nonfungible staking

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Wasif Iqbal pfp

@wazzymandias.eth

Think would make more sense once validator balance limit is lowered & we get closer to stateless proposers. Distributed != decentralized. There's risk of bimodal distribution that pushes supermajority further towards centralized operators. For decentralization, need more distinct operators, not just more distributed

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agusti 🐘 pfp

i dont know vitalik but you should def consider claiming your degen airdrop and donating it to a good cause ser have a great week fren

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0xpolymath pfp

Hey V, random and unrelated question : can you tell me your straight up opinion on Lukso ?

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wwe🎩🍖 pfp

yes you can tweak rewards to favor decentralized staking. this is better👍 👍 10 $DEGEN for you

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Andrei O. pfp

Read the post, the issue is that this can be easily defeated by some network setup, you can fake decentralization just by using proxies, and still depend on the same infrastructure with all validators. The reality is that's almost impossible to differentiate between fake and actual decentralization.

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@ethereumdegen.eth

Love this. Basiclaly economically incentivizing actors to act how is best for the network to avoid greed causing tragedy of the commons

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