Erik Torenberg on Warpcast

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Erik Torenberg pfp

Why are there so many leftists within crypto? As Solana says in his bankless episode, crypto disintermediates and reduces the power of the state. I get why libertarians and rightists like crypto, but why leftists? Leftists should want state power to enact leftist policy goals if they care about leftist outcomes.

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Erik Torenberg pfp

The answer for many is similar to what Solana implies in the podcast: it makes people feel like they’re being a good person / on the right side of history, while also getting rich

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tldr (tim reilly)

Much of the Left rejects of hierarchy — both that exists in nature and that it should be allowed in political arrangement. Crypto is based on a concept of decentralization that is idealistically non-hierarchical. You can see something like this in action in many early DAOs, including Nouns.

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Ivy pfp

what definition of leftist are you working from? i am in a latent SJW arc but hold no love for the state / think the ppl and technology in crypto are cool, i don't think leftist means statist

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acai 🚽🐇 pfp

who are those leftists in crypto? how many is "so many"?

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Ryan pfp

I don’t think it’s super ideological. Anything more esoteric/erudite/you might hear about in an Economist article still attracts more left wing people coincidentally. Semi related, to some extent there is an elite overproduction thing.

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I understand why you and Solana might see the Bitcoin talking points as representing the entire crypto industry but the values of Ethereum are different. Ethereum values are across the political spectrum Building on your conversation with Balaji one reason is the international nature of the industry. A large majority of crypto devs are outside the US and many of us work in startups with people from all over the world. Unlike the right's focus on nationalism, Ethereum's values emphasize global equality where the protocol treats everyone the same regardless of who they are

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nir.eth 🌿🟣🐦☁️

Since when are leftists the pro-state-power side? Defund the police comes to mind. Fight the power. Black panthers. Occupy Wall Street (anti-bailouts). The right is just as pro-gov when it suits them, “leave it to the states to decide” is a tactic the right uses because they’re the federal demographic minority in the US. Doesn’t make them any more anti establishment, see the military industrial complex for example. There are probably more leftist anarchists than right wing ones, no? Don’t align with this but pretty obvious to me. Leftists in crypto probably gravitate to the disruption of crony capitalism, DAO governance, airdrop/fair share mechanics, anti-nationalism ethos, creator economy etc

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mike rainbow (rainbow mike) ↑

@mikedemarais.eth

privacy for the individual, transparency for the state

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david pfp

The people literally own the tool of production (tokens of blockchains, protocols etc)

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kripcat.eth 🎩 pfp

kripcat.eth 🎩

Is this a genuine question or are you really just saying “leftists get out of my bubble, you don’t belong here” in a rhetorical question? Implying that left leaning crypto tribe are self serving hypocrites seems to suggest the latter.

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Varun Srinivasan

> crypto disintermediates and reduces the power of the state an aside, but i don't think this is really true today, at least in the usa. most serious crime is easily prevented, payments happen in us dollar stablecoins which gives the government even more leverage to print money.

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Tayyab - d/acc pfp

Left does not inherently mean statist. It can also be collectivism. Ownership of networked businesses being distributed more broadly to include users and suppliers (e.g. Uber drivers) is a more leftist thing. I, also, think it’s very important to non make crypto an ideology of left v right. Was the internet left or right?

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schorn.eth 🎩

DAOs are literally communal socialism.

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Erik pfp

some leftists simply want equal access for all, crypto plays a big role in that

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Trigs pfp

Probably need to reexamine your understanding of "leftists" if you're finding their behavior incongruent with your expectations. Perhaps the actual individuals (not the personified avatar of them created by mass media) aren't actually trying to accomplish what you've been led to believe (big government). Maybe everyone is sick of the current system and we're all uniting under the banner of sovereignty and choice. Maybe there is no left and right, but actually just people who want to live free from the oppression of this bipartisan trap we've been lured into.

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Yes crypto reduces the power of the state in favor of protocols. But power of the state isn't the goal of leftists. It's just a means to achieve leftists policy goals. These same goals could also be achieved with code, smart contracts, crypto incentives, etc.

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mmu pfp

Some who claim “left” are still referring to the progressivism we seen during the hippie era, thats why. A lot of people refer to themselves as “left” but are actually libertarians. They just don’t update their politics because they don’t care to. Being “left” or “progressive” is a whole different meaning in 2024

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kenny 🎩 pfp

the leftists are generally within Ethereum eco, so if you spend a lot of time there (here), you'll get that impression they tend to have a rosy outlook of a future where crypto will work seamlessly alongside the state and crypto fails to undermine the power of the US dollar because stablecoins will be dominant for value transfer granted there are also much further left wing ppl that want radical changes and they align with fundamental crypto values as well but from my experience the "crypto will be integrated with the existing system" viewpoint seems to be more popular

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i think there's a common enemy element (big banks, big tech, etc.) and a "communal organizing" element, but yea it feels incongruent with the increasingly influential authoritarian flank

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