Eric P. Rhodes on Warpcast

vrypan |--o--| pfp

I support freedom of speech. But I have not followed a single discussion about it that isn't either superficial and/or biased. I see people who blame Brazil for banning X (did they actually do it?) but are ok with US banning TikTok. Others who fight freedom of speech and at the same time dream of living in Dubai. I recently listened to a respected crypto founder who wants to leave Canada for UAE. And then 5 minutes later, he is discussing how crazy it is that France arrested Pavel Durov. Wtf? https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/websites-blocked-in-uae/

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Eric P. Rhodes pfp

Conflating and comparing both bans as free speech issues misses some key factors. The potential ban of TikTok centers on national security concerns, not free speech. U.S. law prohibits foreign governments from having direct or indirect control over media companies operating within the country. In 2021, the Chinese government acquired a "golden share" in a ByteDance subsidiary, which allows it to appoint board members and exert influence, raising concerns about potential government interference.

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vrypan |--o--| pfp

I totally understand why the US went this way. Of course, "national security" is US gov excuse to bypass laws, but I honestly think in this case they are in the right direction (not sure of the actual outcome, but that's a totally different discussion). Now, the French law prohibits child pornography. It is my understanding that the French authorities asked Telegram to take measures agains it, give user data related to users accused of it, etc, and Telegram denied to cooperate. Isn't it expected that they would take legal action against the company and the CEO? Why is it about freedom of speech?

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vrypan |--o--| pfp

I consider the US one of the best places when it comes to freedom of speech. However, one point many Americans miss is that 99% of social media is based in the US and is influenced by the US public opinion. So, in practice, you can say anything you want (First Amendment), as long as you don't violate the ToS of Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc. which are usually much much more restrictive than the Constitution. One could say that the government does not have to actually restrict speech, because others do. I'm trying to illustrate that this is a very complicated matter, and instead of (just) pointing fingers to "others", we should all discuss these things in depth.

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Eric P. Rhodes pfp

yeah, that's fair. the first amendment offers broad protections in the US, but private platforms enforce their own rules—you're not getting arrested like in the UK or facing charges like Durov in France for not complying with legal orders. in the US, you’re safe from government censorship, but private and social consequences still exist. also, let’s not conflate free speech as a human right with how it’s legally enforced—there’s a big difference between broad ideals and what’s protected by law.

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vrypan |--o--| pfp

Typically, Dubrov did not get arrested for something he said. He got arrested for something that his company did. Let's say Musk is arrested for Securities fraud, would this be a First Amendment violation?

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Eric P. Rhodes pfp

correct, durov wasn’t arrested for something he said; he was arrested because his company didn’t comply with french law. his refusal stems from his free speech beliefs, making it a personal free speech issue, not a legal one. durov says, “i won’t comply because it violates my free speech ideals,” while france argues, “your company’s actions make you complicit in illegal activities.” so, it’s about durov’s principles, but france isn’t prosecuting him under free speech laws. similarly, if musk were arrested for securities fraud, it wouldn’t be a first amendment issue—it’s not about speech, but about violating specific laws. this is why it’s important to distinguish free speech ideals from legal actions; one is about personal belief, the other about legal compliance.

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