Tell me why I'm wrong: 

Ethereum L1 or L2 gas fees make micropayments too expensive for everyday consumer apps. 

Less frequent payments? Sure. But 10x a day? No.

bad-takes

I love that posting a /bad-takes has a picture of @br1an.eth

UTXOs can make things pretty cheap.

https://vitalik.eth.limo/general/2023/11/14/neoplasma.html

Plasma/Validiums are now possible because of advancements in ZKPs.

This system doesn’t support arbitrary tx amount though, has to be some standard sizing.

Working on building products with zkTLS, and subverting web2 systems by encouraging client diversity. A ruthless empiricist.

http://opacity.network

investor, advisor & fan of crypto, ethereum, defi, NFTs & AI. posts not expert opinions or advice. http://gallery.so/dcinvestor + http://deca.art/DCinvestor

likely viable on validium architectures (with off-chain data availability), or you think too expensive there too?

haven't heard them discussed in a while, but think volition models could give you best of both worlds (security + cheap tx's when you need them)

I agree re: cognitive overhead. But if available and frictionless for small % of users in a small % of cases can be powerful.

sounds right to me but tbh i'm skeptical that humans actually want the cognitive overhead of micropayments (stated vs revealed etc). Interested to watch your warp-tipping experiment play out

building products /neynar, hacking /farhack, sharing thoughts /dylan | dylansteck.com

2024 shaping up to be a wild one. 

I’m now no longer liking people’s cast. Just going to Warp. Now to buy a ton.

Are warps limited supply or infinite? 

Now I think a FIP should be introduced to add to protocol blob.

💯 

https://warpcast.com/les/0xa92aa942

Might just be me but in my head warps have higher fees (gas + apple tax) baked into the cost. I use them because I can earn them in other ways than paying

I think this is part of why people like to use Warps so much

c/acc - 🏴‍☠️🌊 Bring me that Horizon 🍹
Gold League of Legends player

http://icebreaker.xyz/syed.fc

Posit: Any payment that costs >$0.01 in txn fees isn't viable

I’m confused about the size of payments that would fit this description that would also be good to implement. That Venn Diagram looks like two separate circles to me.

@base contributor #001; onchain cities w/ OAK & city3

and fwiw i think that's totally ok and good.

blockspace is the next generation of compute. scaled apps will have their own compute (L3), smaller apps will use shared compute (L2), shared compute (L2) will serve as the hubs that connect apps, all of this will be secured by a maximally secure base layer (L1).

i agree, would do it with an L3 plasma with alt-DA

For micropayments, need $0 fees

Will probably need a hybrid solution (acceptable, because very low value) combined with stuff like this:

For micropayments, need $0 fees

Will probably need a hybrid solution (acceptable, because very low value) combined with stuff like this: https://ethresear.ch/t/springrollup-a-zk-rollup-that-allows-a-sender-to-batch-an-unlimited-number-of-transfers-with-only-6-bytes-of-calldata-per-batch/11033

we're entering an age of abundance where energy costs will fall precipitously and epistemic value will become more important ("Yes, this is actually a video of me, not a deepfake")

where are the celestia folks when you need them

decades later... L27 should solve it guys!

$0.01 tx fee fo $0.33 payment is the same as 2.9% Stripe tax. 

So if by microtransactions we mean $0.50+ per payment, it'd still be an improvement.

Validiums/volitions make fees as cheap as you want to subsidize offchain (can be as cheap as warps), basically off-chain DA transactions that get settled on-chain occasionally.

There's a few prod examples today (starkware mainly), I agree it's less accessible than say... "just use Base"

Perhaps L2s will eat into the market share of those 3.5% card processing fees on bill payment websites

TradFi also had to figure out had to make micropayments work with the credit card rails and fees.

as long as the UX is smooth, this fits into the expected budget. is 10 x $.30 pushing it? for sure, but w/ scaling improvements ethereum should be able to handle this. 

the miss, as far as I can tell, is that most of Ethereum usage has nothing to do IRL daily budget (mostly just entertainment, instead).

The simple and true answer is: too early to tell

Why is this a bad take?

I'm also always surprised how slow Base is. It's cheap, sure, but time to confirmation seems surprisingly long every time I use it. For a consumer-oriented L2 I would expect near instantaneous transactions.