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Elie
@elie
I live in Israel. AMA about the war
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@fun
what do you think news outlets are getting wrong/right about the isreal-hamas war? what would you like people to know?
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Elie
@elie
Hmm. I don’t follow the foreign news enough. Some mistakes I’ve seen: 1. It’s not only Netanyahu’s war. Most of Israel supports it. The security cabinet included the opposition till recently. And even though it’s been disbanded recently that’s not because the opposition feels we need to stop fighting Hamas. 2. It’s nuts that the far left supports the extreme far right, extremist Muslim terrorists. Gays for Palestine is utterly insane when the only place a gay person can be fully free in the Middle East is Israel. 3. There are only 2 sides in this war. Most critics of Israel completely ignore the reality Israel is in and who we’re fighting. 4. Just ceasefire and stop the fighting. I wish that could happen. Stop all terrorism. Release the hostages. Let’s put an end to it. Israel gains nothing from war. But Hamas won’t stop. 5. Even when we reach a ceasefire it will be temporary. With Hamas in power the fighting will renew within a few years.
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Elie
@elie
6. “Genocide”. Israel could wipe out Gaza overnight if it wanted. It does everything in its power to stop civilian deaths. What Hamas wants to do to Israel is genocide. What Israel is doing is self defence. 7. Lastly, anyone else in this position would probably do 10x worse. Imagine 1200 Americans being murdered and 240 being held captive. And then people seeing America as the bad guy for defending itself from these murderers. It’s insane. Being the stronger side doesn’t mean you’re in the wrong. There’s a double standard against Israel. Like israel is the world’s biggest problem. When all we want is to live in peace and security without terrorism.
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Elie
@elie
Also on the genocide point. The number constantly quoted is 35000. With no mention of terrorist deaths. Around 15,000 of which are terrorists. Which is actually an extremely low ratio of civilian to combatant deaths. Especially as Hamas fight from civilian areas. Around 1.5:1 civilian to terrorist death rate. But this is almost entirely ignored. Especially by the genocide crowd. There’s also some major holes in the 35k number from Hamas. UN verified 25k. And even those verified names included a lot of false data. Now clearly a lot of Gazans have died. But the exact numbers being spouted are likely off by quite a bit.
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@acai
i'm not gonna pick on every single point you make here since it'd be probably counter-productive and nothing new would ever come out of all these talking points. just one thing that i'm genuinely eager to hear opinions from you about, what's your thought on the increasingly aggressive settler expansion into the westbank?
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Elie
@elie
It should stop. And most Israelis are against it. The police/army does a bit to curb it. But could do more. The other day they were throwing Molotov cocktails at police for taking down an unauthorised settlement. Also if we’re comparing extremism on each side. The major issue is that the extremists are in charge in Gaza. Whereas in Israel they’re the minority. Happy to answer other questions. If you’re a seeker of truth you shouldn’t be afraid of conversations. And it’s inaccurate that people’s views don’t change because of conversations. Even if neither side changes their minds at the end of the conversation it can still be impactful long term. As well as for others reading.
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@acai
"The major issue is that the extremists are in charge in Gaza." What is your view on the argument that netanyahu's government has always wanted the existence of hamas that they could use to legitimize the takeover of gaza, since the israeli government over the years has helped prop up hamas through qatar?
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Elie
@elie
Misunderstanding of what happened. And borderline conspiracy theory depending on how it’s explained. Israel allowed funding into Gaza via Qatar. People complain when funding is not allowed in. And also when it is allowed in 🤷‍♂️ Ultimately the idea was that if the money is allowed in then Gazans won’t fight Israel. If Gaza is wealthy and successful it will have something to lose and stop fighting Israel. Same reason left wing Israelis provided Gazans with work. Clearly this plan didn’t work out. It has been reported that Netanyahu told the right wing parties to let in the funding to keep Gaza and West Bank leadership independent of each other. But to suggest Bibi was funding Hamas to attack Israel so that Israel could go into Gaza is a wild. And just not what happened. Israel is in Gaza right now and doesn’t want it. Israel moved out of Gaza in 2005. And very few Israelis want it back, including Bibi.
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@acai
on the funding part, netanyahu specifically wanted hamas in power while hamas over the years have been shooting rockets into israeli territories. so it doesn't make sense at all to say that the funding was for gazans while knowing that it'd go into the hand of the organization that are attacking you at the very moment https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000 on the point of israel not wanting to have gaza, i can buy the argument that it's not the official narrative, but the fact that isreali government plans to have idf control gaza post-war and rejects neutral intervention basically gives israel authority over gaza forever, which makes the argument "doesn't want gaza" very thin. besides, there are already israeli developers openly selling real estates in gaza to jewish community in north america
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@acai
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-says-idf-will-control-gaza-after-war-rejects-notion-of-international-force/
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Elie
@elie
I can’t read the Haaretz article. It’s an opinion piece and the author is very far left: https://www.haaretz.com/ty-WRITER/0000017f-da2b-d42c-afff-dffb52b10000 You’ll find a lot of pretty hot anti israel takes in Haaretz opinion pieces. Make the actual points rather than quoting an article. I’m aware people have different views on Bibi, and there’s a tonne of Bibi hate within israel for various reasons. But that israel and Hamas are somehow allies despite 20 years of war I’m not sure what to tell you. Hamas controls Gaza. The UN sending money into Gaza is also sending funds to Hamas by your logic.
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@elie
Israel does not want control of Gaza. It wants security. If America would control Gaza and keep it safe then Israel would be 100% okay with that. Assuming they actually keep it safe. There have been a lot of options to discuss to have Gaza in non Hamas hands. From Gazan clans, to a Middle East security force, to the PA. Although no one wants it. There aren’t people buying land in Gaza right now. That you think this is frankly nuts and out of touch with reality. Yes, there’s a tiny portion of Israeli society that wants to move back in. But the vast majority do not). And there is no government policy for that to happen.
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@acai
you say you don't want to control gaza, and then you plan to let IDF have the total military authority over gaza, plus you already are making economical plans for gaza post-war. basically you will decide how gaza should be and your force to be the only force present there. again, if we replaced israel with any other nation, it'd be considered a total takeover of a region, it doesn't matter how you sugarcoat it. as to the gaza land sale, just google it and you'll find plenty of recent reports about developers selling future properties built in gaza in synagogues to jewish only. you don't have to believe me.
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@elie
Please share the links for your final point instead of telling me to Google it. And please tell me how they have the rights to sell the land they don’t currently own. I don’t need to sugarcoat anything. Israel has thousands of rockets fired at it. We want to secure our safety. We do not want the land. You’re naive if you think any other country would allow a neighbour to bombard it with rockets and murder 1200 citizens and say it will do it again if it can. Not to mention the 100+ hostages in Gaza right now.
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@acai
just a few https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-settlements-gaza https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68650815 https://eu.northjersey.com/story/news/2024/03/15/israeli-real-estate-event-legal-complaints-escalate/72970499007/
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@elie
I’m aware there are people that want to move back to Gaza. But I would like to see one sale that actually happened. Rather than news stories of people that want to go back. Those are two very different things. You’re so detached from reality on this it’s sad 🤦🏻‍♂️
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@acai
i think the intention of selling is bad enough but ok, this is going to be subjective as well, no need to argue over anymore
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Elie
@elie
It’s just so fringe. You can hate those specific people all you want. But most Israelis would laugh at the idea. It’s ridiculous. From a group of 8m people you will always have varied beliefs. They’re nutcases. We can agree on that. But as I mentioned before. Israeli government is not taking back Gaza to live in. Israel kicked 9000 Israelis out of their homes in 2005. So that Gaza could be Jew free. Actions are what matter. Not a report about what some crazy real estate developer wants to do.
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